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October 24, 2004

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FearAndLoathing

Nader was not "lying" about Gore owning stock in Occidental. While Nader owned several hundred thousands worth of the Fidelity Magellen fund--which in turn owns shares of Occidental among its many investments--the Gore family *directly* owned a quarter-million dollars worth of Occidental shares.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20000522&s=silverstein

Now, a terminology lesson for NaderIsBush. "Lying" constitutes willful misleading and requires knowing that what you're saying is false. "Incorrect" is the word you should have used here, but it is much less effective for the hate-mongers trying to incite or villify, isn't it? Now the question is, were you "lying" or merely "incorrect" in your post?

John

Don't believe Ralph is forcing anything down anyone's throat. Here in the east at least, I haven't seen even ONE campaign ad for Nader. The only bumper sticker I've seen is the one I got in the mail on Saturday.

If Nader really said that (about preferring Bush to Kerry), I'd like him to explain it but it wouldn't be the first time that a Presidential candidate said something off-color. I think that I've heard worse. He should explain it. You can never run away from things like that. He's very fortunate that hardly anyone is following his campaign now. If he was actually up somewhere in the polls, he'd have to answer that question 100 times a day. He should just explain it now and get it over with.

On the other hand, and not knowing how "dirty" his investment portfolio really is (I'll take your word that he actually made an investment into Occidental), it's pretty hard to own a portfolio of stock that doesn't somehow negatively impact the environment. What can you invest in that is actually a substantial company? Ben and Jerry's? How about all that methane from the cows? Microsoft? What about all those shrink-wrapped Windows manuals that get tossed without being opened? Did you know that those would last 10,000 years? Martha Stewart Enterprises? A snowboarding company? I'm wracking my brain but I can't think of any company that doesn't have SOME negative impact on the environment. Oh I know, I can put all my money in the art that people make from recycled bottles.

I can't think of a single investment that could be made that would have no negative consequences. Even if there were a company whose product had no impact, what about the impact of all their employees driving to work? How clean do you want to be?

But I get your point. Certainly, there may be better choices than an oil company, but it's not that easy to actually make money off your investments without investing in companies that actually have an impact on the economy.

Your saying that people shouldn't have investments in companies that hurt the environment is like the strategies to divest endowments of South African investments as a way to get the corporations to change. That stuff did have an effect and it's a terrific idea if you can get a lot of people with a lot of money to get rid of their investments. But not enough people are on this bandwagon at the present time to make a difference. If you have divested your own funds, good for you. Keep it up. Just try not to get so mad about it.

I'll agree with another thing you said. We cannot go another four years with Bush.

So what are you doing to support Kerry other than writing letters?

NaderIsBush

The only symbols of Nader's campaign are the dollar signs from all the contributions he's getting funneled to him from the Bush campaign. There's nothing progressive about Ralph W. NaderBush, nor is there any thing progressive about his neo-angry-white-male supporters.. the children of Reaganites, weaned on intolerance, ego, greed and a sense of entitlement to have their own way. True progressive create consensus. The Nader Reich do not respect the people, they see them as sheep to be controlled, and will lie, bully, threaten, what have you to get their own way. They aren't just Bush-lite, they are like Bush.

Ralph Nader has spent the last thirty years lying about himself, his record, even his positions. He uses people, he abuses the trust of his contributers who donate to his organizations believing the monies are going to causes.. when in reality, the monies are being used by Nader to invest in dirty corporate investments for his own profit.. back in 2000, Nader was the one who owned stock in Occidental Oil, but that was only the tip of the iceberg. He owned 8 million dollars in investments that pollute the Earth, that profit from the slave laboring of children and poor people in Asia, Central and South America.

Nader is a paid shill for the Bush campaign. He lied about Al Gore owning stock in an oil company, saying it made him not pure enough.. but Gore didn't own that stock.. Nader did.. when found out, Nader made excuses, so did his hypocritical angry white male supporters. When Robert Kennedy Jr. a well known environmentalist wrote an op-ed about Nader admitting at a party that if forced to choose between Gore and Bush, he'd vote for Bush, Nader called Kennedy a liar.. unfortunately for "Saint" Ralph, a reporter from Outside Magazine was there, with a tape recorder.. he exposed Nader for the liar that he is in the September, 2000 issue of Outside, which is available online. Nader still refuses to address this, but again, his angry white male supporters make excuses. Just like the Karl Rove, and other Bush campaign cronies.. for Nader Reichers, the truth doesn't matter.. like the right wing, they have gotten "religion", and are blind ideologues, bent on forcing their dogma down everyone's throat.

They will never achieve anything other than a furtherance of Bush's power.. just like in 2000, if anyone falls for their lies, they will assist Bush in retaining the white house, and will, like those in 2000 who fell for Nader's lies, have the blood of innocent people on their hands. If Nader and his faux leftists hadn't rationalized electing Bush, the Iraq war never would have happened. What will Bush get to do if Nader helps him again this time? Frankly, we're at a crossroads. This isn't a joke.. we cannot survive four more years.. Bush will destroy democracy, he started staffing draft boards around the country back in November of 2003, check out http://bushdraft.com there are articles from independent sources there verifying that. No one will be safe except for the most wealthy.

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